03 yukon Mods for Fuel Economy any ideas?

[clp71220]

Metal on metal friction causes internal wear on the engine. Piston rings, cylinder walls, cam lobes, lifters, pushrods, crank and cam bearings, etc, will all exibit inevitable wear no matter what you do. Carbon or not, your engine will still wear and you will still need to change your oil. The used oil won't be as dark as an engine with lots of carbon build-up, but molecules will still break down and the oil will lose some of it's viscosity.

Well the way I understand it the carbon breaks down the oil which causes metal on metal friction. And if your oil has no carbon to break it down then you should never have any metal on metal friction especialy if you are running mobil one or an equivalent synthetic.

 

[RenegadeTahoe]

I use Seafoam to take any carbon buildup out of my system....:yesnod:

Same here! $6 a can is sure easier to handle than over $1000

Well the way I understand it the carbon breaks down the oil which causes metal on metal friction. And if your oil has no carbon to break it down then you should never have any metal on metal friction especialy if you are running mobil one or an equivalent synthetic.

Heat and time is what breaks it down. That's why if you leave a car sitting for a few years, the oil will come out as sludge... changed the oil on a car that sat for 3 years... had to flush out a LOT of sludge build-up from it. The engine gets extremely hot internally... and breaks down the oil. Friction from tight clearances is what causes the heat (along with the combustion)... the oil causes a light layer between the metal parts and allows the friction to be lessened. Carbon may play a factor in the break down, but it is not the cause of it.

 

[JKmotorsports]

Well the way I understand it the carbon breaks down the oil which causes metal on metal friction. And if your oil has no carbon to break it down then you should never have any metal on metal friction especialy if you are running mobil one or an equivalent synthetic.

The absence of carbon alone isn't enough to keep from changing your oil. Heat, extreme cold, contaminents, and internal engine pressure all play a role in motor oil degradation. Plus there's all kinds of additives, like rust and corrosion inhibitors, detergents, dispersants, antifoaming agents, oxidation inhibitors, extreme pressure additives and viscosity index improvers. Each of these help the oil to protect components from accelerated wear, but additives have their limitations and their level of protection will degrade over time.

 

[rjardy]

holy ****! the cure for cancer....

instead of all the "shoulds".....

Show us some results.

 

[MadMedwyn]

"If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is."

Best quote I ever heard.

 

[Jack_leg]

HHO, hydrogen gas,
If it works or if you want to know the truth just get a tank of H2 and run it. (Just remember to use brass tools so you don’t blow yourself up.:jok
I bet you will not get a significant increase.
Here is why:
Your engine needs so much of it to ad to combustion. It needs more than your going to want to add because that tank of H2 is expensive and HHO catalyst kits will only produce milliliters of gas at best. You need litters of this gas to get the results you wanting (double the mileage) with the gasoline.
HHO; If it works great, I love to see it. I just thank it’s a gimmick from the early 70’s. The HHO kits are simple to make yourself I just don’t see it worth the time and money to make. I know of dozens of people at my work that are trying to get it right but all I see them doing is fooling the truck to running lean and giving false readings of the MPG. They are still filling up the same amount it just telling them different. I don’t know???

As for what works for today:
Shave your heads for a compression ratio of 10.5 to 1, add high ratio roller rockers, gasket match them and bolt it up. Add headers, dual exhaust, kill the cats, etc.
After all that, then put in a 6-speed manual and roll but don’t get into the rpms.
Next, chop the top down 10 inches, duck tape all the cracks to wind tunnel specs till your drag is less than .3 lbs per Mph
Once you do that gut out about 1000 lbs and then you might get 26 mpg.

This type of truck has no chance in h--- of getting 30 mpg + average with a gas engine. =2muchTruck=

 

[clp71220]

The HAFC kit that I will be using produced 120 Litters per hour and that may even be to much HHO for the engine to consume. The HHO is a fuel enhancer that causes more gas to burn quicker while still in the engine instead of being burned under your Hoe in the CAtalitic converter. The benifit is greater mileage and you in turn use less Gasoline. The PICC will be a fuel vaporizer and that thing is supposed to get the Hoe up to get this. Over 100 mpg. If that is true I will be getting myself one for sure.

 

[tybardy]

The HAFC kit that I will be using produced 120 Litters per hour and that may even be to much HHO for the engine to consume. The HHO is a fuel enhancer that causes more gas to burn quicker while still in the engine instead of being burned under your Hoe in the CAtalitic converter. The benifit is greater mileage and you in turn use less Gasoline. The PICC will be a fuel vaporizer and that thing is supposed to get the Hoe up to get this. Over 100 mpg. If that is true I will be getting myself one for sure.

Tell ya what chief... proof is in the puddin... Im not gonna knock you though man, inovators always get heckled, always have, always will... if your right your right and who cares about the rest ya know... if the sh*t does work and you see REAL gains, post your proof because Im sure people would fork over the $1000 for it if it was the real deal... good luck boss! Dont blow your 'hoe up

 

[clp71220]

Tell ya what chief... proof is in the puddin... Im not gonna knock you though man, inovators always get heckled, always have, always will... if your right your right and who cares about the rest ya know... if the sh*t does work and you see REAL gains, post your proof because Im sure people would fork over the $1000 for it if it was the real deal... good luck boss! Dont blow your 'hoe up

My current Base line is as follows:
I did a mileage test before I started the install. I first topped off the tank and then traveled 47.7 miles and then topped off the tank again at the same gas pump to see how much fuel was used. 2.997 gallons = 15.9 mpg so this will be my base line. After this Mod is done I will post the same road trip with the HHO installation.

 

[.justin.]

My current Base line is as follows:
I did a mileage test before I started the install. I first topped off the tank and then traveled 47.7 miles and then topped off the tank again at the same gas pump to see how much fuel was used. 2.997 gallons = 15.9 mpg so this will be my base line. After this Mod is done I will post the same road trip with the HHO installation.

3 gallons of gas is not nearly enough for a statistically significant baseline...

Get three full tanks and it might be a little bit more reliable.

 

[clp71220]

Just sit back and watch Fella.

 

[.justin.]

Just sit back and watch Fella.

With three gallons of gas as a baseline, you're not going to prove a single thing. I can drive like a maniac for three gallons and get 9mpg average, then do something arbitrary like install a new air filter and drive like a granny and get 22mpg for the next three gallons.
It would be ludacris to say that the air filter was responsible for the mileage increase.

There's a reason these kind of systems aren't put in place by the factory. You can be certain that with their millions of dollars (billions even) in available research funding and 10+ years of hydrogen-based fuel testing that they've fully examined any and all electrolysis systems. If the gains were there, every GM vehicle (and other automaker) would be getting the 25%+ better mileage that these systems claim.

 

[clp71220]

With three gallons of gas as a baseline, you're not going to prove a single thing. I can drive like a maniac for three gallons and get 9mpg average, then do something arbitrary like install a new air filter and drive like a granny and get 22mpg for the next three gallons.
It would be ludacris to say that the air filter was responsible for the mileage increase.

There's a reason these kind of systems aren't put in place by the factory. You can be certain that with their millions of dollars (billions even) in available research funding and 10+ years of hydrogen-based fuel testing that they've fully examined any and all electrolysis systems. If the gains were there, every GM vehicle (and other automaker) would be getting the 25%+ better mileage that these systems claim.

It is obvious you do not understand what is being done here. This is called an Orange test. It is done at cruse on a open road and with as much control as can be maintained. When the Mods are done we will repeat the same test on the same road in the same manner and use the same gas pump as before. That way you eliminate as much error as possible. This is how the EPA does it as well. And for your information this same HAFC kit will be put into factory vehicals very soon. The Announcement will be made on Sept.15 I am not at liberty to say who the Auto manufacture will be but they are going to put Dutchman HAFC kits on there factory cars as an Option.

 

[.justin.]

It is obvious you do not understand what is being done here. This is called an Orange test. It is done at cruse on a open road and with as much control as can be maintained. When the Mods are done we will repeat the same test on the same road in the same manner and use the same gas pump as before. That way you eliminate as much error as possible. This is how the EPA does it as well. And for your information this same HAFC kit will be put into factory vehicals very soon. The Announcement will be made on Sept.15 I am not at liberty to say who the Auto manufacture will be but they are going to put Dutchman HAFC kits on there factory cars as an Option.

What's starting to become apparent is that you're more than just the average enthusiast interested in a product. This is sounding like you've got a vested interest in this product. Have seen this before with similar systems on other forums...

The EPA does not test in that manner, they use a controlled environment (dyno cell). Your test does not take into account atmospheric conditions which can vary greatly. A slight head or tail wind will have dramatic effects on something as big as a Yukon.

You're better off spending time on a load-bearing dyno where you can very easily (and quickly) measure BSFC with and without the system and really determine if there are any gains. For this system to actually work, your engine will need to create significantly more power at the same throttle percentage as it is now.

 

[tybardy]

What's starting to become apparent is that you're more than just the average enthusiast interested in a product. This is sounding like you've got a vested interest in this product. Have seen this before with similar systems on other forums...

The EPA does not test in that manner, they use a controlled environment (dyno cell). Your test does not take into account atmospheric conditions which can vary greatly. A slight head or tail wind will have dramatic effects on something as big as a Yukon.

You're better off spending time on a load-bearing dyno where you can very easily (and quickly) measure BSFC with and without the system and really determine if there are any gains. For this system to actually work, your engine will need to create significantly more power at the same throttle percentage as it is now.

Hey this is totally off key here man, but are you Justin with Black Bear? I sent you an email regarding an engine tune... need some info, very very very interested in your service (if you are who i think you are) and I want to get the ball rolling right away

 

[.justin.]

Hey this is totally off key here man, but are you Justin with Black Bear? I sent you an email regarding an engine tune... need some info, very very very interested in your service (if you are who i think you are) and I want to get the ball rolling right away

Yes sir, I've been out of town for a couple of days here, am getting back to emails now.

 

[clp71220]

What's starting to become apparent is that you're more than just the average enthusiast interested in a product. This is sounding like you've got a vested interest in this product. Have seen this before with similar systems on other forums...

The EPA does not test in that manner, they use a controlled environment (dyno cell). Your test does not take into account atmospheric conditions which can vary greatly. A slight head or tail wind will have dramatic effects on something as big as a Yukon.

You're better off spending time on a load-bearing dyno where you can very easily (and quickly) measure BSFC with and without the system and really determine if there are any gains. For this system to actually work, your engine will need to create significantly more power at the same throttle percentage as it is now.

Using HHO will produce more power when you lean out the engine. As for a dyno I am sorry I do not have $70k laying around to purchase one. Besides this manner of testing works. And I do know more about this than a average person might. After this I will be shooting for the PICC that will really make things get to moving. Now Dutchman does have Dynos that they use to measure peak perfomance and to help the computer to except the changes.

 

[JennaBear]

Please be sure to post up your results. Meanwhile, a google search of HAFC has told me most of everything I need to know...

 

[clp71220]

Please be sure to post up your results. Meanwhile, a google search of HAFC has told me most of everything I need to know...

Yes that is the idea. When I get the kit tuned I will post the results for all to see.

 

[.justin.]

Using HHO will produce more power when you lean out the engine. As for a dyno I am sorry I do not have $70k laying around to purchase one. Besides this manner of testing works. And I do know more about this than a average person might. After this I will be shooting for the PICC that will really make things get to moving. Now Dutchman does have Dynos that they use to measure peak perfomance and to help the computer to except the changes.

Leaning an engine out does not make more power. That is a common misconception and one that is incredibly wrong. At closed loop, you're running at approximately stoichiometric (14.68:1). At 12.5:1, best power will be achieved on most tahoes on this site. Leaner than 15.5:1 and you'll start to waste fuel, as the power will drop significantly enough that it will take more throttle to maintain speed.

Arbitrarily leaning out the fuel mixture will have fleeting effects with a closed loop system, as the computer will just compensate by adding even more fuel in.

None of this addresses the fact that it takes energy to create the "HHO", energy that cannot be fully recouped, since the thermal efficiency of a four stroke ICE is less than 50%...

What kind of guarantees do these guys make, if any?