03 yukon Mods for Fuel Economy any ideas?

[clp71220]

Leaning an engine out does not make more power. That is a common misconception and one that is incredibly wrong. At closed loop, you're running at approximately stoichiometric (14.68:1). At 12.5:1, best power will be achieved on most tahoes on this site. Leaner than 15.5:1 and you'll start to waste fuel, as the power will drop significantly enough that it will take more throttle to maintain speed.

Arbitrarily leaning out the fuel mixture will have fleeting effects with a closed loop system, as the computer will just compensate by adding even more fuel in.

None of this addresses the fact that it takes energy to create the "HHO", energy that cannot be fully recouped, since the thermal efficiency of a four stroke ICE is less than 50%...

What kind of guarantees do these guys make, if any?

You might contact them and see if you can become an installer and tuner for them there is already 7000 people involved to my understanding. The addition of the HHO increases the volume of fuel. HHO has 5 times the combustion than fuel does using monatomic Hydrogen and Monatomic oxygen. The HHO is a Fuel enhancer causing the fuel to burn in the motor instead of the Cat. The Guarentee is that you get 50% better mileage or your money back most all vehicals get 100% to 200% increase with the HAFC. The fact that the electronics are being addressed makes all the difference. With this you must lean out the vehical. The energy used to produce the HHO is a factor but the gains more than pays for itself.

 

[cashmoneyridin]

damn this is killing me. how is everyone getting such better gas mileage than i.? i have exhaust and intake performance wise and with my wheels on (24"moz towers) i get about 6-7 mpg around town and about 14-15 highway. with the stock wheels it really isnt much better. about the same

 

[tybardy]

damn this is killing me. how is everyone getting such better gas mileage than i.? i have exhaust and intake performance wise and with my wheels on (24"moz towers) i get about 6-7 mpg around town and about 14-15 highway. with the stock wheels it really isnt much better. about the same

My guess would be... pull the weights out of your foot, if you are the first one off the line, you arent doing yourself any favors... my combined is 15.5MPG and from what i can tell that is about right for these things

 

[clp71220]

damn this is killing me. how is everyone getting such better gas mileage than i.? i have exhaust and intake performance wise and with my wheels on (24"moz towers) i get about 6-7 mpg around town and about 14-15 highway. with the stock wheels it really isnt much better. about the same

I have found that the aftermarket air intake and exhaust systems need to be tuned for them to work properly. You might beable to get a programer such as a hypertech or something else to do a quick tune.

 

[Jack_leg]

The Guarentee is that you get 50% better mileage or your money back most all vehicals get 100% to 200% increase with the HAFC.

mmm No, It's not. I just can’t believe in HHO!
I can see adding HHO but it's not going to get 200% better fuel mileage.
Are you suggesting [15 mpg plus (15mpg * 2)] and you are suggesting its going to get 45 mpg of gasoline!!? Just how much HHO are you thinking you’re going to add?

This is discussed on other forums. We covered it at corvetteforum.com and co-workers at to old nuke plant were stumped for awhile; the formulas will not let it add up to their claims.
Simply adding milliliters of this substance that may increase efficiency of the motor a small to a slight significant percentage at best; you would need litters per second to do these numbers.

There is not an HHO kit available to produce these numbers while keeping the amps down for the alternator. If you can produce a litter of HHO per second with a stock electrical system, then power to you.

And I will then be a believer and spread the word, as for now I have no faith in HHO being the cure.

My Idea is pure electrical, 3-phase, frequency driven, break regenerative, lightweight powerhouse like the Tesla. See: http://www.teslamotors.com/

This Technology works and its been around for ages. There is nothing new here. The first cars were electric, its time to go back to the basics. Guck Kas. Electricity can be made by anyone, that’s just a fact. Just rub your feet on the carpet…

Good luck however, if you think you can work this out just remember to e-mail us the instructions.

 

[clp71220]

mmm No, It's not. I just can’t believe in HHO!
I can see adding HHO but it's not going to get 200% better fuel mileage.
Are you suggesting [15 mpg plus (15mpg * 2)] and you are suggesting its going to get 45 mpg of gasoline!!? Just how much HHO are you thinking you’re going to add?

The kit for a V8 engine produces 120 Litters per hour. The math is if you are at 10 mpg then you will get 15 mpg or your money back. Most vehicals get an average between 50% to 200%. although the 4 cylinders have see as much as 500% increases. HHO is very powerful when the vehical gets a good tune by the installer. V8 engins will get less than the 4 cylinder just because of the consumption rate.


This is discussed on other forums. We covered it at corvetteforum.com and co-workers at to old nuke plant were stumped for awhile; the formulas will not let it add up to their claims.

Base the formula on rate of expansion. The HAFC kits have 4 different components working together. 1.The HHO fuel cell, 2. Colvalizer fuel treatment that breaks the covalent bonds and helps the Gasoline blend witht he HHO and burn faster. , 3. the Vaporizer that preheats the fuel and magnaitzes the fuel. 4. The optimizer that helps the cars computer tune to the fuel savings. This is key. To success


Simply adding milliliters of this substance that may increase efficiency of the motor a small to a slight significant percentage at best; you would need litters per second to do these numbers.

HHO has 5 times the combustability of Gasoline.

There is not an HHO kit available to produce these numbers while keeping the amps down for the alternator. If you can produce a litter of HHO per second with a stock electrical system, then power to you.

The HAFC uses 30 amps or less to generate 120 Litters per hour

And I will then be a believer and spread the word, as for now I have no faith in HHO being the cure.

The PICC is the cure but HHO works very well for now. The PICC is before congress right now awaitng approval as a replacement for the CAT under your truck.

My Idea is pure electrical, 3-phase, frequency driven, break regenerative, lightweight powerhouse like the Tesla. See: http://www.teslamotors.com/

I agree Electricity works very well but may not come of age in our life time. But if this device was to be released then that would all change.
http://www.innovativetech.us/100123...e86a238e238a392bf0fdd96e16&/1/frmArticleID/5/

This Technology works and its been around for ages. There is nothing new here. The first cars were electric, its time to go back to the basics. Guck Kas. Electricity can be made by anyone, that’s just a fact. Just rub your feet on the carpet…

Good luck however, if you think you can work this out just remember to e-mail us the instructions.

I will keep you guys informed.

 

[RenegadeTahoe]

My current Base line is as follows:
I did a mileage test before I started the install. I first topped off the tank and then traveled 47.7 miles and then topped off the tank again at the same gas pump to see how much fuel was used. 2.997 gallons = 15.9 mpg so this will be my base line. After this Mod is done I will post the same road trip with the HHO installation.

It may be a bit late for this... but... I did this in about 40 miles...

 

[clp71220]

I would have to say congradulations you have the most fuel effecent Hoe on the planet. As for me I am installing a HAFC kit on my Yukon and I have part of it installed already and did a milege run to see if the Vaporizer and fuel treatment would make a difference with out the HHO. I made a 41 mile run and found that I only used 2.083 gal that work out to be 19.7 mpg. I am happy so far. Now to get the rest of the kit installed.

 

[.justin.]

I would have to say congradulations you have the most fuel effecent Hoe on the planet. As for me I am installing a HAFC kit on my Yukon and I have part of it installed already and did a milege run to see if the Vaporizer and fuel treatment would make a difference with out the HHO. I made a 41 mile run and found that I only used 2.083 gal that work out to be 19.7 mpg. I am happy so far. Now to get the rest of the kit installed.

Again, you don't have a legitimate comparison here. 40 miles, 60 miles, even 100 miles is not a legitimate basis for comparison.


Get 2 full tanks before and after and that will be slightly more believable.

 

[RenegadeTahoe]

I would have to say congradulations you have the most fuel effecent Hoe on the planet.

No congraTulations necessary... that was to show that 40 miles and 2.5-3 gallons isn't enough for a good test. That was actually down from the 31.6 I had before I told the wife to get me the camera... total mileage for the trip was approx. 18MPG (city and highway / hill climbing combined)... total mileage for that leg of the trip was about 20MPG (downhill much of the way... with a few hill climbs thrown in) A REAL test would be 2-3 tanks.. same type of driving... averaged out.

 

[RenegadeTahoe]

I'd also like to see long-term longetivity test results. Sure, you can get 100MPG... or 1000HP... by leaning it out and throwing HHO at it... but will it last longer than 36,000 miles?

Here's an example: Ephedra... GREAT weight loss supplement (used it myself... lost 60lbs in 4 months) After it had been released for several years, it was found to be causing many deaths and / or illnesses. They banned it for quite a while... nothing has been as good since... see where I'm going with this?

Kinda funny.. with all the conspiracy theories about the auto manufacturers being in bed with the oil companies... more Hybrid vehicles are hitting the streets as we speak... that goes against every notion of a conspiracy theory. Keep in mind... auto manufacturers have more to deal with than just the consumers. For instance: My '95 Z28 did not have a selectable first gear. Reason: Noise level at first selectable gear had to be within a certain range.... Solution: Make second gear the first selectable gear! Skip-shift was present in the M6 Camaro's and Firebirds / TransAm's... if you weren't in the throttle enough, it would skip you from first to fourth... why? Same reason... That's why they came up with aftermarket stuff... skip-shift eliminator for the M6's... cutting out the rubber stop on the A4's.

 

[clp71220]

Well let me share with you the mileage test that is used by the HAFC installation.


HOW TO PROPERLY TEST THE MILEAGE
There are all sorts of variables in short term testing for mileage increase. Is it winter or summer? Was it windy the day the test ran; were there favorable or unfavorable weather conditions? Did you go up hills or down hills, and have to start and stop more? Many things must be considered, including your driving habits, traffic patterns, weather conditions, geography of the land, and many other variables. In order to properly test the mileage of a vehicle, it is important to limit all variables except the vehicle itself. That way the vehicle can tell you what has happened to its efficiency by comparing an orange to an orange. You must test your mileage BEFORE you install the HAFC Kit, and then again AFTER. Here’s how to conduct your mileage test…
Find a freeway with at least three or four lanes going in your direction, with an entrance and exit on both the north and south (or east and west) side of the freeway. It should be the straightest and most level strip of freeway available to you. There must also be a gas station on one side or the other at or near the exit.
Stop and fully fill up your car until it is absolutely full to the top. If you want to be absolutely sure, use a funnel to top it off.
Travel at least twenty miles or more, in one direction or the other to a u-turn that goes over/under the freeway and heads back in the direction you came from. USE CRUISE CONTROL TO MAINTAIN A CONSTANT SPEED (whatever speed you select!)
Go back to the exit you got on and get back off. Go back to the gas station you fueled up at and top it off once more.
The amount you used to travel the forty or fifty miles (whatever the mileage was for the total trip) will determine your mileage on the highway. Go at least forty miles in total.
Divide the miles by the amount of gas used to get miles per gallon of gas.
IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU DO THIS BEFORE YOU MODIFY YOUR CAR. You may think you know your vehicle’s mileage, but you more than likely have never checked it in this manner. It is also VERY important that you use cruise control on this trip to maintain a consistent load on the engine. DRIVE IN THE MIDDLE LANE IF NECESSARY FOR THE ENTIRE TRIP. It may be a new experience for you to travel at that speed. It may seem like other drivers are going to run over you, but they will go around you if they need to. Make sure you do not get behind someone who goes slower than you do. With the cruise control on, take your foot off the accelerator pedal
6
and just steer. In this way you can measure the vehicle’s mileage without the driver’s habits interfering. This is similar to the way your highway mileage is calculated by the auto manufacturer.
THEN MODIFY YOUR CAR AS PER INSTRUCTIONS IN THIS KIT, AND REPEAT THE EXACT SAME TEST YOU DID BEFORE IT WAS MODIFIED, USING THE SAME FREEWAY AND THE SAME GAS STATION. If the heater (or air conditioner) was on before, have it on for this test as well. It is best to do the test with everything off in both cases, but make sure that both tests are done under the same conditions. Do not do one test on a windy day with severe wind, or one on snow or ice, and the other one on dry road. A dry road and little wind, with as little traffic as possible, are preferable for both tests. Make sure that at the end of the test the gas station is still going to be open. Divide the miles by the amount of gas used to get miles per gallon of gas. If you went 50 miles on 2.5 gallons of gas in the first test, then your mileage result before modification was 20 miles per gallon of gas (50 divided by 2.5.) If you went the same 50 miles after modification on 1.5 gallons, then your mileage is 33.3 miles per gallon. The increase in fuel economy, is calculated by subtracting the original mileage from the new mileage and dividing the difference by the original mileage (then times it by 100 for %). For example: If the original mileage was 20 mpg, and the new mileage is 33.3 mpg, the difference is 13.3 mpg. So, the difference of 13.3 mpg divided by 20 mpg original = 66.5%. If you do this any other way, then you are NOT accurately testing the mileage of the CAR! It is important to know that, because it is the car that we have modified… not the driver.
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[RenegadeTahoe]

Well let me share with you the mileage test that is used by the HAFC installation.


HOW TO PROPERLY TEST THE MILEAGE
There are all sorts of variables in short term testing for mileage increase. Is it winter or summer? Was it windy the day the test ran; were there favorable or unfavorable weather conditions? Did you go up hills or down hills, and have to start and stop more? Many things must be considered, including your driving habits, traffic patterns, weather conditions, geography of the land, and many other variables. In order to properly test the mileage of a vehicle, it is important to limit all variables except the vehicle itself. That way the vehicle can tell you what has happened to its efficiency by comparing an orange to an orange. You must test your mileage BEFORE you install the HAFC Kit, and then again AFTER. Here’s how to conduct your mileage test…
Find a freeway with at least three or four lanes going in your direction, with an entrance and exit on both the north and south (or east and west) side of the freeway. It should be the straightest and most level strip of freeway available to you. There must also be a gas station on one side or the other at or near the exit.
Stop and fully fill up your car until it is absolutely full to the top. If you want to be absolutely sure, use a funnel to top it off.
Travel at least twenty miles or more, in one direction or the other to a u-turn that goes over/under the freeway and heads back in the direction you came from. USE CRUISE CONTROL TO MAINTAIN A CONSTANT SPEED (whatever speed you select!)
Go back to the exit you got on and get back off. Go back to the gas station you fueled up at and top it off once more.
The amount you used to travel the forty or fifty miles (whatever the mileage was for the total trip) will determine your mileage on the highway. Go at least forty miles in total.
Divide the miles by the amount of gas used to get miles per gallon of gas.
IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU DO THIS BEFORE YOU MODIFY YOUR CAR. You may think you know your vehicle’s mileage, but you more than likely have never checked it in this manner. It is also VERY important that you use cruise control on this trip to maintain a consistent load on the engine. DRIVE IN THE MIDDLE LANE IF NECESSARY FOR THE ENTIRE TRIP. It may be a new experience for you to travel at that speed. It may seem like other drivers are going to run over you, but they will go around you if they need to. Make sure you do not get behind someone who goes slower than you do. With the cruise control on, take your foot off the accelerator pedal
6
and just steer. In this way you can measure the vehicle’s mileage without the driver’s habits interfering. This is similar to the way your highway mileage is calculated by the auto manufacturer.
THEN MODIFY YOUR CAR AS PER INSTRUCTIONS IN THIS KIT, AND REPEAT THE EXACT SAME TEST YOU DID BEFORE IT WAS MODIFIED, USING THE SAME FREEWAY AND THE SAME GAS STATION. If the heater (or air conditioner) was on before, have it on for this test as well. It is best to do the test with everything off in both cases, but make sure that both tests are done under the same conditions. Do not do one test on a windy day with severe wind, or one on snow or ice, and the other one on dry road. A dry road and little wind, with as little traffic as possible, are preferable for both tests. Make sure that at the end of the test the gas station is still going to be open. Divide the miles by the amount of gas used to get miles per gallon of gas. If you went 50 miles on 2.5 gallons of gas in the first test, then your mileage result before modification was 20 miles per gallon of gas (50 divided by 2.5.) If you went the same 50 miles after modification on 1.5 gallons, then your mileage is 33.3 miles per gallon. The increase in fuel economy, is calculated by subtracting the original mileage from the new mileage and dividing the difference by the original mileage (then times it by 100 for %). For example: If the original mileage was 20 mpg, and the new mileage is 33.3 mpg, the difference is 13.3 mpg. So, the difference of 13.3 mpg divided by 20 mpg original = 66.5%. If you do this any other way, then you are NOT accurately testing the mileage of the CAR! It is important to know that, because it is the car that we have modified… not the driver.
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That's great, however that still does not take out variables for driver error, traffic, and/or conditions. When you stop at the gas station, you will have to leave it and accellerate to get to the proper speed. If you have to sit and wait for traffic, or a light, or if you go 1/2 throttle one time and 1/4 throttle another, etc. I've watched my mileage on my DIC drop by .25-.4MPG just by sitting at a light. That short of a distance can be effected by these variables. I live in Phoenix... there will NEVER be a time that I can guarantee no traffic... flat, level driving conditions, and gas stations 20 miles apart. The better test would be an average of the same driving. As Justin and others have said... 2+ tanks of fuel averaged out.

 

[tybardy]

...That way the vehicle can tell you what has happened to its efficiency by comparing an orange to an orange.
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You lost me at Orange to an Orange... unamerican

...but ill tell you what, this is one of the most entertaining threads ever! opc:

 

[clp71220]

That's great, however that still does not take out variables for driver error, traffic, and/or conditions. When you stop at the gas station, you will have to leave it and accellerate to get to the proper speed. If you have to sit and wait for traffic, or a light, or if you go 1/2 throttle one time and 1/4 throttle another, etc. I've watched my mileage on my DIC drop by .25-.4MPG just by sitting at a light. That short of a distance can be effected by these variables. I live in Phoenix... there will NEVER be a time that I can guarantee no traffic... flat, level driving conditions, and gas stations 20 miles apart. The better test would be an average of the same driving. As Justin and others have said... 2+ tanks of fuel averaged out.

I understand that driving conditions will vary from one place to another and that there will always be unexpected driving conditions. As for me I live in the country side and I have large towns within 30 miles of me in any direction. So I have highway driving in any direction I travel. With no red lights to worry about. And this is the delta area so the roads are very flat with very few hills. Once I get the kit fully installed I can do 2 or 4 tanks which ever strike your fancy. But this test works for what I am doing. As for now I have to get back to clean up after the hurrican.

 

[RenegadeTahoe]

I understand that driving conditions will vary from one place to another and that there will always be unexpected driving conditions. As for me I live in the country side and I have large towns within 30 miles of me in any direction. So I have highway driving in any direction I travel. With no red lights to worry about. And this is the delta area so the roads are very flat with very few hills. Once I get the kit fully installed I can do 2 or 4 tanks which ever strike your fancy. But this test works for what I am doing. As for now I have to get back to clean up after the hurrican.

You're just not getting the point. A 40 mile trip isn't a good measure of true fuel mileage. Right now, I've driven 30 miles... and I'm getting 10MPG... is that a true mileage calculation? nah... just like the 30MPG I posted earlier wasn't. If I averaged my last 3 tanks, I'd get about 14.5 or so. Yeah, that's a good estimate.

 

[clp71220]

You're just not getting the point. A 40 mile trip isn't a good measure of true fuel mileage. Right now, I've driven 30 miles... and I'm getting 10MPG... is that a true mileage calculation? nah... just like the 30MPG I posted earlier wasn't. If I averaged my last 3 tanks, I'd get about 14.5 or so. Yeah, that's a good estimate.

I do understand your point. It is just not possible for me to make that type of run right now. I do not drive the yukon that much without pulling a trailer with a tractor on it. So Gas mileage is out the window when the yukon is working.

 

[clp71220]

You lost me at Orange to an Orange... unamerican

...but ill tell you what, this is one of the most entertaining threads ever! opc:

Most of the Oranges are grown in america. :skep:

 

[RenegadeTahoe]

I do understand your point. It is just not possible for me to make that type of run right now. I do not drive the yukon that much without pulling a trailer with a tractor on it. So Gas mileage is out the window when the yukon is working.

So, take your Yukon and do your normal driving. It's not really a "real world" test unless you drive like normal and test it out. For instance... if I mostly drive around town and get 12MPG... it really proves nothing if I get a 4MPG increase on the highway... 'cause that's not where I'm spending most of my time / money. 40 miles just is NOT a large enough data log to really show true improvements. I can improve my gas mileage within 40 miles without spending ANYTHING. I just have to go downhill. A couple of tanks... averaged out... regardless of what conditions exist... should yeild a better test result than 40 miles. If it does what it says it can do... my 12MPG should be 25+ in the city. That would be noticable whether or not I stomped on it... or grannied it.

 

[clp71220]

I should be able to finish the HAFC install tomorow and begine the tuning process. My average mpg over the course of a tank before mods was around 14 mpg. If I was pulling the trailer it would be around 9 mpg.