another newb question RE SNOW USE

[akim47]

ok... so I went with the Denali which is all wheel drive...

So I was at the dealership and they are giving me these disclosures regarding snow chains... So I ask them "what's the deal with this?"

They tell me that I can't use snow chains... PERIOD... I ask why, and they say "because you can't. read your manual, that's all our lawyers allow us to say..." i read the manual, and it says not to use snow chains, but doesn't give a reason.... I NEED HELP!

I've been to the mountains during heavier snow periods in a AWD subaru and an AWD audi.... yes, AWD is great, but there was still some sliding...
I've been told that with AWD, you are allowed to travel in heavy conditions, but ultimately, you need snow tires or chains in heavier conditions...

Does this mean that in a heavy storm, that I'm screwed??? I would be very dissappointed, because one of the reasons that I got the truck was for our frequent trips to Mammoth... so the question is CAN I USE CHAINS/CABLES? If not, why? and then, what is my solution for snow use???

Thanks Everybody!!!
AK

 

[LAP TOP GAMER]

The best reason I can think of is it might mess up the traction control some how, it is too bad we can't get a straight answer on this.

 

[Blackhammer]

Just a guess, but when you add chains to any tire you increase your traction significantly. When you do this you add more stress to the driveline. In some situations when your wheel is spinning (you are stuck), the addition of the chain prevents it (in some situations like hooking stumps or rocks) and your hubs and joints now are taking a load that were not designed to do.

I learnt this from adding snow chains to my Polaris 700 sportsman. I snapped both front u-joints on a log :mad2: ! This would never had happened if the chains were off.

You can use it with chains. Nothing will blow up. BUT, if you do get stuck remember to go easy on the throttle and you should be fine. :thumbsup:

 

[Rollin Thunder]

Just a guess, but when you add chains to any tire you increase your traction significantly. When you do this you add more stress to the driveline. In some situations when your wheel is spinning (you are stuck), the addition of the chain prevents it (in some situations like hooking stumps or rocks) and your hubs and joints now are taking a load that were not designed to do.

I learnt this from adding snow chains to my Polaris 700 sportsman. I snapped both front u-joints on a log :mad2: ! This would never had happened if the chains were off.

You can use it with chains. Nothing will blow up. BUT, if you do get stuck remember to go easy on the throttle and you should be fine. :thumbsup:

thats a preety good reason

if you really need that traction, i would trade that sucker in for a 4wd tahoe or yukon. wqual power to all four wheels instead of awd controling front and rear wheels getting the most.

 

[wedtwuk]

I believe that it is simply a legal issue to cover the manufacturer in case there are any issues with the use of tire chains. I had to sign the same thing when I bought my 07 Tahoe, my 02 Tahoe, my 05 Vette and my 03 Infiniti FX. I have never heard of any AWD vehicle that cannot use tire chains.

 

[akim47]

does anybody have further input? heading up to mammoth this week. its dumping snow, so i was going to bring chains, but still uncertain as to how safe it is to put on my denali?

i checked the tires, which are rated for M+S, so im guessing i should be ok without them? i've had people tell me in the past that even with decent tires and awd, that they'd get chains. i know someone who plowed his WRX STI into a snow bank...

 

[Crazydefense32]

Becasue the Tahoes and Yukons, and Denalis for that matter, are so heavy you really don't need chains with all terrain tires. Your previous cars were a lot lighter which makes it easier for them to slide around. On snow and on ice (for the most part, you never know what's gunna happen with ice) the weight of the SUVs is able to pack down into the snow, making it grip better than a lighter Subaru or Audi. And instead of chains if you really feel worried get tire whips, or cables. They aren't as heavy as chains and don't grip as well but they do make a significant difference, and you would probably be able to use them on your Denali as well. From experience (I own both 4wdand AWD vehicles and go to the snow a lot) you made the right choice with the AWD, as it will be better in the snow because it sends the power where you need it, like it a tire is slipping. Good Luck! :Chevy:

 

[Rafael]

Chains mess with the traction control system. I do not know if it does so dangerously or not. Also, if you use chains be very aware of big dips and such or the chains can destroy your fenders in an instant(this is true on all vehicles).
Snow in Mammoth is serious snow and it requires 4wd.
AWD is made for the midwest and parts of the east, snowy places that are flat.
There are hills I wouldn't take 4wd on when snow covered, AWD in these places is insane.

 

[Crazydefense32]

Chains mess with the traction control system. I do not know if it does so dangerously or not. Also, if you use chains be very aware of big dips and such or the chains can destroy your fenders in an instant(this is true on all vehicles).
Snow in Mammoth is serious snow and it requires 4wd.
AWD is made for the midwest and parts of the east, snowy places that are flat.
There are hills I wouldn't take 4wd on when snow covered, AWD in these places is insane.

I would disagree with you on the AWD. I own both 4wd and AWD vehicles and have gone up much steeper hills than Mammoth, and have taken both through snow up to the top of the wheel wells, and the AWD is much better. When it comes to hardcore off road the 4wd is better, but AWD is much better in deeper snow, as it sends power where there needs to be, and full power to all tires like 4wd. AWD is safest in snow, but like I said in hardcore offroad 4wd is definately needed. :Chevy:

 

[Richard Hoblitt]

I think it would be better to have chains on than to risk your life or crashing your trk. I would put a set of the wire rope type on the front wheels and go for it. If that breaks some drive line part then the its a weak system and i can't beleive that. Its just to cover their a** in case you do have a issue.:brsh1:

 

[Rafael]

I'm not going to question your experience, however, a winter doesn't go by that I am not towing at least a few AWD vehicles out of snow using a 4wd Tahoe. The snow is usually no more than a foot deep. These are almost always cars stuck between 2 hills. They thought they could go down the hill easily , they become tobgoggans and slide partly up the next hill and then slide backwards and crap their parts and get stuck at the bottom.
AWD systems, except for Audi, do not provide more than 20% power to the non primary drive wheels, most do not provide more than 10%. AWD is essentially a limited slip system.
If your awd is better for you in the snow than your 4wd then you need a course on 4wd snow driving. awd is a passive system, 4wd takes an understanding of how your particular vehicle's 4wd system works, it's not difficult to learn but it isn't passive either. A tahoe, and landcruiser, and a jeep have different systems that act differently in the snow. Even the jeeps have different systems among themselves. I find the tahoe to be the easiest to use in the snow even if the landcruiser is overall a better 4wd.
Snow driving is dangerous no matter what you are driving, especially when hills are thrown in to the picture. Everybody should either take a course or learn from someone who knows what they are doing.

 

[Rafael]

I think it would be better to have chains on than to risk your life or crashing your trk. I would put a set of the wire rope type on the front wheels and go for it. If that breaks some drive line part then the its a weak system and i can't beleive that. Its just to cover their a** in case you do have a issue.:brsh1:

I agree, just dont forget to take them off when the snow and ice is gone.

 

[Crazydefense32]

I'm not going to question your experience, however, a winter doesn't go by that I am not towing at least a few AWD vehicles out of snow using a 4wd Tahoe. The snow is usually no more than a foot deep. These are almost always cars stuck between 2 hills. They thought they could go down the hill easily , they become tobgoggans and slide partly up the next hill and then slide backwards and crap their parts and get stuck at the bottom.
AWD systems, except for Audi, do not provide more than 20% power to the non primary drive wheels, most do not provide more than 10%. AWD is essentially a limited slip system.
If your awd is better for you in the snow than your 4wd then you need a course on 4wd snow driving. awd is a passive system, 4wd takes an understanding of how your particular vehicle's 4wd system works, it's not difficult to learn but it isn't passive either. A tahoe, and landcruiser, and a jeep have different systems that act differently in the snow. Even the jeeps have different systems among themselves. I find the tahoe to be the easiest to use in the snow even if the landcruiser is overall a better 4wd.
Snow driving is dangerous no matter what you are driving, especially when hills are thrown in to the picture. Everybody should either take a course or learn from someone who knows what they are doing.

I completely agree with you on the fact that snow driving is dangerous. But I was taught by my father who drove in it since he was 12, and I've driven in it since I was 15. The AWD system I have sends 100% to all wheels at all times when they need it, just like my 4x4 in the Tahoe. The Tahoe was great in the snow I absolutely love it, and I still drive it the snow often. The fact remains however, that the AWD at least in my car, works better for me than the 4x4 in my Tahoe. I have never gotten stuck, and have pulled out my fair share of both 4x4 and AWD's as well. When it comes to the Denali, I think it should do well in the snow as an AWD, GM designed to do well and I think they know what they are doing. Driving in the Sierra foothills I go up my fair share of hills, and although the Tahoe got me up them no problem, my AWD has gotten me up them without any problems either, and I don't own an Audi... yet. Anyway I think the debate will rage on, but my 2 cents is an AWD, in my experience (and trust me I have a fair share), is better than 4x4. But the fact that you bought a full size GM vehicle with AWD or 4x4 always means you will not get stuck, and they will always deliver you to your destination safely! :Chevy:

 

[slvrbrchyukon]

But I think everyone is missing the whole point ....

Denali comes with either 18" rims with all season 265/65/18 tires or 20" rims with again all season tires 275/55/20 ... now if I was to go up on the mountains with deep snow, I would not choose any of those wheel setup.

Ideally, all terrain tires is needed to avoid chains for the vehicle.

 

[Rafael]

The AWD system I have sends 100% to all wheels at all times when they need it, just like my 4x4 in the Tahoe.

I meant that of 100% power, no more than 20% goes to the front and 80 to the rear. Whereas in a 4wd any wheel can have as much as 100%.
If you are better in the snow with awd vs. 4wd then perhaps the tires are the difference. Most 4wd vehicles do not come with good tires for the snow. Regular street tires on 4wd in the snow is a disaster waiting to happen. You need good snow tires or at least good all terrain tires.

 

[PatrykKoul]

Awd works by distributing traction to the wheels that are need it. With chains, the awd system can not work properly and it can really mess up the transmission, differentials and whole driveline system. I don't know why you'd need chains anyway though. I took my denali up with 24s snowboarding and it did great.

 

[Rollin Thunder]

somthing i have not seen or missed is that 4wd and awd may help you get going but it aint gunna help you STOP.


i like 4wd better than AWD in snow as i like the equal power to all 4 wheels, but awd is better than nothing.

but 4wd gets you 4 LO and that can help to make sure you dont slip and fly down a steep grade, or help you if you start to bog down.

some people turn off the traction control when in snow, but i keep it on as i think it really helps and has saved my butt more times that i can count. only time i turn it off is when im in sand as it bogs you down.

 

[PatrykKoul]

The denali has a manual mode on the 6spd tranny. What makes you wreck down hill is your breaks. Doesn't matter if you have 4x4, AWD, RWD, or FWD. If you are tapping your breaks down a snowy hill, you're prob gonna slide out. As long as your wheels still have torque, it's griping and not going to slide out. I put my car in M1 or M2 downhill, and just coast without using the breaks, and if I need sto slow down more I'll drop to the lowere gear. I've never heard of anyone wrecking up hill, but have heard of people not making it up a hill. Momentum is key to getting up, and traction, grip with your wheels torque is key to getting down.

 

[Zed 71]

Akim47 you will be ok up there with AWD and M+S rated tires (stock width?). I have made many trips to Mammoth (and western Canada) in a FWD Celica with all season sport tires in heavy snow and have not had a problem. Although, the CHP(?) made me stop once to put on cables on the road up to Mammoth.

I would recommend to bring cables (not chains) for the front wheels at least since CHP (?) sometimes setup check points to inspect adequacy of vehicles travelling up to Mammoth. For myself, I would only use them if they required it. There are some great points in this thread. Just remember to drive slowy, smoothly, and in control. Ice will almost certainly negate any advantage of 4x4/AWD...

Keep in mind I grew up in Canada and driving in snow/ice was second nature. In the end, it is up to you to evaluate your own driving capabilities and vehicle to determine if/how you should drive in snow/ice conditions. Bring extra provisions just in case.

Good luck and take some pictures!

By the way, my Z71 rocks offroad and in the snow !

 

[akim47]

thanks everyone for the response. the car handled awesome. never had an issue. after the latest storm up there, the truck will be put to the test next trip... as of right now, my opinion is awd+ m/s tires is perfect... i probably saw 25+ other denali/yukons/tahoes there for new years truckin around town...